mr money mustache personal capital
October 11, 2013, 9:40 pm. Our fees are 1% up to $2mm, .75% $2-5mm, .5% $5-10mm, and .25% for $10mm plus. They keep calling me and don't seem inclined to take a hint that I'm not going to give them any of my business. No need to engage a company like PC to help you buy these. Thanks…. My version of Quicken requires me to enter my password each time it retrieves information from a financial institution. I haven’t invested in RSP or similar funds personally, but my impression is that they do provide the benefits of indexing, without the capitalization bias, at low management fees (well under 1%), and thus might be an interesting alternative to a traditional index funds. Is there a way to designate certain assets, and their associated income and expenses (i.e. Just make sure your defensive stance doesn’t creep into other areas of your life, as it’s a poorer way to live in general: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/06/11/get-rich-with-trust/. Videos about Personal Finance, Early Retirement, and Other Stuff. It is similar to Mint, and it is also free to use. (Rant)Why we hate Mr. Money Mustache and other Personal Finance Gurus I'm not livid I'm just finally able to put into words why I am so disappointed by many of the personal finance tips that are given out and the people who treat frugal living almost as a hobby. I set up a comparison account at my regular brokerage that contains a full copy of my asset allocation (normally I different classes in different accounts for tax minimization). If you decide to add this financial tool to your own belt, you can do so using the image below (which will benefit this blog, and thanks!). Sir Osis of DeLiver I dig how these pieces of software can show you your financial past, but equally love how they can help you plan ahead. I don’t know much but I do know better than that! It is not as detailed as I would like, and because I have a complicated portfolio, the program crashed on me several times. From Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30: To hundreds of thousands of devotees, he is Mister Money Mustache. (My answer to this was to auto-filter all of PC’s emails to a subfolder, but as a result I never look at any of them and virtually never sign into PC. Actually, I should say that I couldn’t get behind the idea of using a method that was not yet time tested to potentially improve on something that has decades of incontrovertible evidence supporting its superiority over every other method that’s been meant to improve on it (& any method that is attempting to beat the market is theoretically simply trying to improve on indexing… OK, that was too deep, but you get the idea). I always found the investment management side of Mint to be underwhelming so I had been searching for a replacement for quite a while. Look at ticker RSP. This may sound like I’m being contradictory, saying that I’m not willing to give Personal Capital my financial information, but then explaining how I do so with other companies. October 14, 2013, 11:48 pm. I plan on keeping Mint around for spending categorization purposes but Personal Capital is definitely my go-to now for anything portfolio related. October 11, 2013, 2:50 pm. disgruntled employee or the cold hands of the NSA) is easy today. But I made sure to buy the Admiral version of the Total Stock Market Fund (VTSAX), so I enjoy the low low fee at only .05%! October 12, 2013, 7:58 am. As a yodlee user, I found mint.com to be fluff. I know there’s a lot of haters of YNAB around here since it’s a pay for service (one time fee) and it’s manual, but man does it help myself and my wife. It is more labor intensive but given what is at stake I think it is a reasonable balance between enabling insight into my financial status and securing these valuable resources. It is a high impact event with a low likelihood. The portfolio managers are all CFA’s (I think actually everyone who works for this firm nation-wide are CFA’s no small feat!) My initial experience is that it gets things wrong and has pretty but not-to-useful graphs that obscure the real data. Which is great for convenience, but not so great for security – having one company that can access all your accounts whenever they want to. Lower than that and you should just sock your assets in a low-fee index fund at Vanguard for 0.04 percent. It isn’t perfect but way better than my old way of manually updating spreadsheets once in a blue moon to see my total portfolio value, asset allocation, and net worth. Right now I use My Portfolio at Bank of America and My Spending Report at Wells Fargo. (17:25) It means I no longer have to log into other accounts to tell what their value is, I can login to Vanguard to tell how all my investments are doing in one place. Instead of keeping track of 10 passwords and trying to make the rounds of every financial account on a regular basis, I now just tap the Personal Capital icon on my phone, enter a numerical PIN, and begin scrolling through the colorful graphs and pie charts of the family’s financial details. If PC could enhance its spending categorization functionality (and overall budgeting functions) like Yodlee, I’d probably use it exclusively. Pop – I found those weekly emails to be silly – the wise investor does not benefit from getting a weekly update on how the random market fluctuations affected their portfolio balance. I opened the app, swiped through a few pages, and came across this little gem of an article, “ How to retire early – 35 years early .” The 3,200 word article / interview told the story of blogger Pete Adeney, a.k.a. You were a bit vague in the post. Mint is one hell of a tool, which is also something to consider…..so I liked the idea another poster had about them merging. For example, after I first published this article, many readers came out with favorable reviews for Betterment (automatic investment in existing index funds with lower management fees, in exchange for less personalized service), so do your research before signing up with any paid financial management service. Just wanted to add one point about Vanguard funds – looks like most of their mutual funds have a version of even lower EP of .05% (which they named “Admiral …”), if you keep a balance of min. I’ve been letting PC manage just over $100k for me since early February, in a similar try-before-I-buy scenario. Thanks to your advice I’ve made our household’s spending leaner and more effiecient… And what’s the alternative, keep your money under your mattress? Oh how I have tried. Pete Adeney, who runs the popular personal-finance blog “Mr. I think you are correct, you shouldn’t have trouble finding a CFP designated fee-only financial planner to meet in-person with for the same price as the Personal Capital advisors. Namely my bank, which is a small, local Credit Union. If that’s what they’re doing and it works as well as the back-tests shows, then even from the perspective of investment returns alone that fee may be worthwhile. But I’ll give it a try now that it’s been updated… And as everyone has pointed out Mint is no good with investments. More information on Investopedia here: But each one is missing one of the key nuts and bolts of wealth and early retirement: For several months, I’ve been using a new service called Personal Capital that addresses all of these things in a fairly motivating manner. I think the program has a lot of potential and I will be interested to see where you take it from here. The opportunity cost of your time should definitely be considered (as well as the risk that your manual scan will miss an errant charge, human beings aren’t great at parsing row after row of financial transactions)! With yodlee moneycenter I get all the information I need. The battle of screenshots could take up several articles in itself, and each company has its advantages. Financial Samurai is another blogger who out of the blue started selling their services like crazy. I already liked Mint and have been recommending it for years, so I was initially skeptical when Personal Capital joined the scene and asked me if I would try out their product. From 2013-2015, I spent time in their offices consulting for them on a part-time basis. My secret weapon for keeping track of my investments: Vanguard’s outside account feature. chris boyd 40 minutes of "You need bonds. I wasn’t familiar with Personal Capital, so I’ll look into it. PC is great. They are much better now at linking to various accounts. But my nest egg grows gradually so I’ve never questioned what the adviser is doing with my money. Jim, perhaps you’re using a different version of Quicken than I am, or you have it set up differently. Get a decent spreadsheet, retain control and you’re done. Volatility equals risk." October 12, 2013, 10:15 am. Isn’t it crazy to think our parents had no choice but to pay high brokerage and management fees. October 12, 2013, 10:20 am. Last time I checked mint does not support this and it is a feature I would love in a product like this. Did you have a chance to probe the security of Personal Capital? It’s hard for Mr. Money Mustache to admit that not everyone has exactly the same interests and skills, but this is one example of it :-), Plex Luthor Like MMM said, you have to just trust at some point. A 10 post introduction to one the newest and most influential personal finance authors! Anything that could seriously degrade the performance of a broad-based fundamental index would also affect a regular index. I can’t see why anyone would be so dumb and offer these businesses some of their most private details for free in return for intransparent “advice”. So if you already understand and adhere to a frugal Mustachian lifestyle, odds are your savings are in the 30%+ range while your debts are rapidly plumetting too. I can afford to take a few minutes (rotating my banking credentials) every month to ensure my peace of mind. I’ll continue to use both for the time being. If you don’t mind hopping over to Reddit, I posted return details here: http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1oafg0/update_comparing_index_investing_to_personal/. Mr. Money Mustache’s publicly shared household spending is just above the Federal Poverty Guidelines for a family of three. Yodlee is much more flexible budgeting especially since you can re-categorize and make your own spending buckets (and create sub-buckets). When comparing to Mint, Personal Capital gets the nod for the most useful starting screen. No, complimentary. FutureAdvisor’s minimum, for free advice, is $10,000. A similarly related botch in Mint is when your financial advisor moves your investments from one custodian to another. October 11, 2013, 2:49 pm. I thought the Personal Capital app was available for the iPad but when I click “get the app” from their link it comes up with a blank white box in the App Store… Anyone have any success with the app or does everyone use the desktop version? I find both Mint and Personal Capital to be significant life simplifiers, because they make things automatic. Any reason to think that PC is better? The risk here is that one of these enterprises could be thoroughly compromised akin to the 2005 compromise of Card Systems Solution, the 2007 compromise of TJ Maxx, the the 2011 compromise of the Sony Play Station Network or the recent compromise of Adobe. Another Questioner The only downside is that it isn’t smart enough to adjust the number of shares upwards when I get dividends in those funds, but it’s easy enough to change that share number. I’ve been using personal capital for a few months now and like MMM have been using Mint for years. I also like how I can easily export stuff into Excel using Yodlee. ;-), Admittedly, I have a mint bias, having been a mint user since they opened their beta testing to the public. I haven’t calculated it but it seems as tho the entire portfolio is compared to the markets’ performance. Regrettably, I didn’t read the fine print and deleted the old account when RBC Bank was taken over by PNC Bank, and I lost all of my past net worth info. I’m a software developer, and I’ve recently been studying software security. Another Questioner Ah well, Mr. Geek and I just put all our accounts in one spot and share. Accidents will occasionally happen and you read about them in the news frequently. I’ve used Quicken for many years, but it took me FOREVER to get my configuration setup the way I like it (and I’m an accountant). If you have the time, energy, interest, and discipline you should without a doubt manage your own assets and save the 1% advisory fee. Last year was hit and miss, but now I can link to all my accounts. As a Canadian with both Canadian and US accounts, Mint (US) serves my purpose the best since I am able to link both US and Canadian accounts in one place. I wonder which posts you’re secretly prepping for now. October 11, 2013, 5:47 pm. Stuart S Index funds are counted as mutual funds but that’s not really how its they’re used. However, it doesn’t give you the spending analyzer, which IMO, Personal Capital did a good job at. I tend to be pretty reluctant to use these personal finance sites just because I don’t know what they’re doing with my financial information beyond just giving me advice. October 11, 2013, 5:31 pm. This post was my “kick in the pants” to also get out of Scenario A too. They maintain their own mostly-passive portfolio of stocks representing the US and international economies. And this offer only comes if you have over $25,000 of assets available to manage. I know a lot of the r/PF’ers read your blog, and while I wholeheartedly recommend PC’s website as a Mint alternative (especially for folks with accounts Mint won’t handle but PC will), I wanted to warn them off of the investment side. So instead, they allocate your assets more evenly across sectors and sizes, which effectively makes you buy stocks lower and sell higher. PC is no more nor no less “read only” than Mint. He had actually been retired for six years before he started writing. “James, we’re thinking about buying an island next year, and Junior will need a 529 savings plan for Harvard. Maybe not as polished looking as these online choices, but it gets the job done. I’ve gone back years in my spread sheet and taken notice of trends and use that info to enter everything we will be spending and saving/investing a year or more in advance. Just-Some-guy That may be worth the switch for me. Of course, if either of them actually figures out how to properly track Lending Club, they will have my allegiance. You’re sort of right about that: younger companies like Personal Capital, Lending Club, Republic Wireless, Treehouse, etc. I dumped Mint in part because I felt it treated users like 5 year old kids. Excellent data Mr. Luthor! I’d never heard of YNAB before. On the one side of the argument, I feel that low fees are essential to investment returns – my own investments are in Vanguard funds where the expense ratio is typically about 0.1%. Just read you and Mr. Collins’ blog articles on Vanguard funds and am in the process of moving old 401k and Roth accounts over there. But now thanks to Personal Capital I know that the annual fees on all these mutual funds add up to more than the cash amount I pay into the investment account! October 11, 2013, 3:18 pm. It wasn’t any good back then so I went back to Mint.. I’m a hardcore Quicken user as well and love the power of categorizing spending and income so I can make detailed reports to share w my family. I’ve been seeing a lot of bloggers suddenly post about this website from out of nowhere. I know Mint has already saved me a $2 monthly “paper statement” fee from one of my new accounts that I didn’t realize I was paying, and a close friend found out that he has been paying for a gym membership for 2 years in a town he no longer lives in! Feel free to read more on Mint’s community where plenty of users are livid by Mints decision to remove investments. I know you can’t time the market, but I don’t want to buy at the top again (a la 2007) and have to wait forever to get back just to even. But in the end, it proved useful enough to warrant this post in my judgement, especially as a way of reminding people to get in the investing and tracking habit. At first both seemed very similar, and I’m supportive of both business approaches. The presence of all the other positive reviews in the blogosphere is the main thing that made me waffle for five months before deciding to write this post – I hate the thought of becoming a marketing mouthpiece for any company so I’m less likely to write about something if I hear about it from the company itself instead of a friend. I am on the board of a small foundation that has its portfolio professionally managed. This is one area that Mint definitely beats out PC, the Mint widget allows me to show all my recent transactions right on my home screen, making it super useful to check what’s happening with my accounts at a glance. Perhaps when more of our income is coming from investments I’ll revisit the decision to largely set it aside, but for now I much prefer mint. October 11, 2013, 2:10 pm. I turned mine off as soon as I noticed the mails. It is usually only available for the US and Canada. Francisco N I think the struggle they will have involves the high switching cost of customers shifting over…..not in terms of cost of course, but hassle, time, and trust. On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind an email with a summary of my weekly spending. Credit cards, savings and investment accounts, insurance, and other stuff. October 11, 2013, 2:08 pm. October 14, 2013, 7:16 am. I worked the FA assigned to me to match risk as best as possible, by telling them my allocation into equities/bonds, US/int’l, etc. Then they can, at their leisure, apply unlimited power to cracking the passwords, which will be fruitful especially if people use weak passwords or if the implementation is not correct (e.g. Which is to say, just because their web site is a read only view of the account, does not mean much. 3) Face-to-face financial planner (most expensive). :), Mr. Money Mustache Moreover, PC has a minimum of $100,000 and charges 0.95% at that level. October 12, 2013, 6:30 am. How dumb can you be ? retirebyforty They specifically named Afas (online) and Cashflow (offline). Fear is a powerful thing. I use pc and love it with just a couple frustrations. It’s not orchestrated on my part, but when the webmaster of personalcapital.com sees a bunch of visitors stopping by from mrmoneymustache.com, they of course tell their coworkers and some will come over to check it out. How is this useful, and why is this the only thing available to show with a widget on Android? I LOVE their website, and decided I’d pay their fee as a thank-you and to get some data on how well their investing is. I must admit I definitely ignored the calls from the PC asset managers, 0.9%? (We've posted a separate story about Fortified on BicycleRetailer.) Thanks for sharing your product experiences here. October 11, 2013, 4:02 pm. (simple.com) I’ve been testing it for about a year and I quite like it! Personal Capital doesn’t do that. But the right is “Alerts”, “Advice”, “Bills”, “Budgets”, “Goals”, and other things that may be useful to people other than me. I looked at Betterment.com and that seemed relatively simple, straight forward way to dip my toe in. It also more intuitively reports on cash flows and net worth. However, this can lead to a one-sided perspective. Where mint’s weekly email is more about “where your money went” with balances secondary, PC’s was all about “your portfolio is up/down” and here’s how it stacks up to NASDAQ and S&P500. Albie – You should be able to modify your reports to account for transfers appropriately, or how ever you want to track things really. Especially if you would prefer to have a real person around to consult with on financial matters, rather than a collection of books and websites with graphs as oddball engineers like myself choose. Mr. Money Mustache About: To learn more about Mr. Money Mustache , click the blog title or image above, or click the link below to check out their website. Net worth, every spending transaction, and investment allocation and performance. I’ve made changes just based on those analysis and my budget/savings has drastically improved. However, much like MMM I feel if you are already mindful of your spending and savings, you probably already have plans in place to reduce debts and save too and do not need to a strict budget. So I decided the best way to verify everything was to throw myself into the system as a customer and soak up the experience for a few months. Recently, they changed this to 2-3 days. I love reading that you gave a topic “five months of skepticism and trial” before writing its post. FinancialFairway Sure, 128-bit encryption itself is infinitely secure for practical purposes, and nobody will guess your password using a brute force approach because there is no way to test millions of combinations through a slow web interface which allows only 3-10 mistakes before locking the account. I recently became a Personal Capital convert. Our 80% stock 20% bond DFA model portfolio has a 22bp expense ratio. We are going to be redoing the daily email (which is focused on spending transactions) and the weekly email in the coming months, so would love to hear more about what people would like to see in those. Wells Fargo has the ability to make a rule for a company or a dollar amount. The advertisers are their customers. :-(. The problem is, I have no idea if this is enough to see us through retirement. A money-printing fountain of youth. I won’t steer you wrong.” No thanks!! She was inspired by Mr Money Mustache and now lives in a trailer. Hi Steve – I use both Yodlee’s Moneycenter and PC. It’s a matter of trust for me, really, Vanguard’s a really well established financial company and I trust them with my financial information more than a relatively new company. October 11, 2013, 2:34 pm. All very complimentary. Personal capital does a more detailed analysis of your investments, identifying the amount you lose to fees each year, and how the assets are allocated compared to their version of an ideal portfolio. The only reason I feel reasonably safe is that the probability of actual un-recoverable theft on a per-person basis is very rare. Burton Malkiel is involved with a new online asset management website where they charge .25% (wealthfront.com). Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. 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